Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Debate Between Alex Linder And Brad Griffin (Hunter Wallace) Starts Out Slow, Picks Up Steam Towards The End; RFM Host Jim Giles A Model Of Objectivity

The debate between VNN Forum webmaster Alex Linder and Occidental Dissent webmaster Brad Griffin, who normally posts under his nom de plume as Hunter Wallace, took place on November 21st, 2012. Good job by both Linder and Wallace, although I would give Linder a slight edge; it started out slow, but picked up steam midway through. Was impressed by Jim Giles’ professionalism and self-restraint; showed no favoritism towards either side. More discussion about Greg Johnson than was really necessary; I would have liked to hear Christianity discussed, and it may be discussed at a follow-up debate scheduled for Monday, Nov. 26th at 1 PM CST.

If you missed it, the archive is available from two sources, Radio Free Mississippi and NewsGuy's Talkshoe portal. While the RFM archive is strictly two hours long, the Talkshoe archive includes an extra postgame show lasting an additional 1:15 hours. Audio quality on both archives is clear, but the RFM archive is a bit louder. If the embed is not visible using Internet Explorer, click on the link provided:

RFM Archive (2:00):



Talkshoe NewsGuy Archive (3:15):



Two discussion threads also of interest:

-- Occidental Dissent: "Live Thread: Alex Linder Debate on Radio Free Mississippi (Round One)". DSCI Pastor Martin Lindstedt provides colorful but detailed analyis on this thread.

-- VNN Forum: "RFM: Linder-Griffin Discussion, 11-21-12 (just under 2 hours)" There was also a precursor thread entitled "RFM Debate: Brad Griffin ("Hunter Wallace") and Alex Linder (Wednesday 11-21-12 1pm CST)", in which Linder and Griffin, who posted under the name of Jethro, engaged in extensive preliminary discussion.

Alex Linder's Reaction: Linder wrote, "It went fairly well. It’s not easy having three people on same talk. Brad made point that the people leading Conservatism Inc. are not like the regular people he knows in Alabama. Quite right. Confirmed by my own experience about 20 years earlier. Flyover is headless. Or has only the head the enemy gives it: little nerds, neocons, policy wonks, male cheerleaders, jews. Creatures that agree with the ‘liberals’ on all the main points, but fight vociferously over stuff that hardly matters. This is sports politics. Flyover takes it for the real thing".

Brad Griffin's Reaction: First, a technical note. Griffin says he will definitely get Skype for the next debate, because he's displeased with the audio quality of smartphone. I would agree with this assessment; Griffin did sound just a bit muffled at times. Griffin characterized it as more of a conversation than a debate, noting that he and Linder agreed on a lot of stuff. On conservatism, Griffin stated that in places like Northern Virginia, you basically got thousands of bright little ambitious hipsters working for Conservatism, Inc. who scored good on their SAT and who ticked all the right boxes on their resume and who went to colleges like Duke or Emory or Tulane, etc. But most of those people don’t know jack shit about conservatism; they're basically a bunch of nerds and policy wonks and hipsters who open a wide cultural gap between them and the people they are supposed to represent.

Griffin knocks it out of the park with that analysis. Most of the prominent conservative analysts now want the Republican Party to duplicate the Democratic Party, meaning to take the White vote for granted and go for the non-White vote rather than become an overtly White party. And this strategy not only will fail, but could result in the end of the Republican Party, because how many conservative and racially-oriented Whites are going to vote for right-wing Democrats?



Greg Johnson and his alleged homosexuality was also an issue for discussion; in my opinion, too much time was spent on this topic. And Johnson, who's the webmaster of Counter-Currents Publishing, was butthurt by the discussion, lashing out in this VNN post:

Alex, I listened to the end of this interview, where I was discussed. Your claim that I told you in an email (an email that is conveniently lost on an old computer) that I am a homosexual is a flat out lie. (And anyone with ears can HEAR it in your voice.) I have our old correspondence. But I don't need to check it, because I know that I said nothing of the kind, nor would I.

I wrote an article protesting the crude queer bashing on VNN. I republished that article in my CONFESSIONS OF A RELUCTANT HATER. If you want, you can use that as a fig leaf.

You admitted that you were being an asshole. Why not clear the air fully and just admit that you pulled that claim out of your ass in anger, because I was besting you in a debate? You speak of your political instincts and deride me for my lack thereof. Well, you constantly urge people to imitate the Jews: lie, cheat, and kill. That pretty much impeaches your credibility as a source right there. If that is what you mean by political instincts, I am pleased to be without them.

I have accused you, Brad Griffin, Sam Dickson, and others of narcissism, and I mean it in a very specific sense: narcissists lie, cheat, and even kill to project and maintain a false image of themselves in their own minds and the minds of others. They refuse to take responsibility for their acts, preferring to make others pay the price, because admission of responsibility would threaten their false self-image, their desire to always seem to be in the right. Such people are often called "sore losers." M. Scott Peck simply describes them as "evil."

I don't see any value in associating with such people. I even have doubts about the wisdom of writing this, because even addressing you this way presupposes that you have a modicum of honesty and decency.

This is my beef with you: You are a very clever writer, but you aren't honest, and it sabotages you and destroys your credibility.

Hell, it harms my credibility even to address you. As a friend pointed out to me: "A man whose colleagues are Kevin MacDonald and Phil Rushton cannot also treat Alex Linder and Hunter Wallace as colleagues, because the latter are morally and psychologically, if not ideologically, the same as the kind of creeps who attack and harass MacDonald and Rushton. It is indecent to associate with such people, even to attack them."


Oooh, so Johnson's so butthurt about it, saying that it harms his credibility to even address Linder. Sounds like one of those self-righteous progressives who claim they have to take a shower after reading Stormfront or VNN Forum. This makes him sound like a pantywaist or like one of those "valuable intellectual properties" that Glenn Miller's always railing against. Grow up, Gregory, grab yourself a pair, and join the real world, son.

Martin Lindstedt had an interesting summation of the debate:

All Linder could do was to yap about how us ZOGlings in the ZOGland need to look at how Golden Dawn does things in Greece. If Russia attacks Turkey from the rear, will Greece help? Linder took a class in Revolution in the jewnivershitty and learned that what is fascinating is boring . . . to it. We live in pre-Revolutionary times. Don’t doubt it lest you become unaware and unprepared.

Hunter [Brad Griffin] stayed on track. Gave no ground, not that Lender was able to attack other than showing itz disdain for us goyim cattle here in the South and Midwest. For someone who claims to be descended from German peasants Lender sure doesn’t like what is probably Heaven on Earth for the Deutch in a ‘cornfield county’ in Northeastern Missouri. Nor appreciate a Norwegian muzak-maker from North Dakota like Lawrence Welk. My mother LOVES Lawrence Welk. Even though a Swede from South Dakota. Listens to all of his re-runs on PBS. Dead ol’ fart.



Hunter may have stayed on track, but Linder was more persuasive. Linder has more experience with the English language than Griffin, having written for a national magazine. Linder also used better equipment, which may seem anecdotal, but which can make the difference in a close debate. I give the nod to Alex Linder on style, and to Brad Griffin on substance.

28 comments:

Troy said...

Hey AA,

Didn't Jim Giles snitch on somebody a while back?

Anchorage Activist said...

Yes, back in January 2010. He reported former ANSWP activist Dan Jones for breaking probation restrictions by communicating with him. Details in this post.

Anonymous said...

Two nonentities babbling over nonsense. Neither represent any known group of organized followers, nor have they any positive movement history, excepting providing entertainment for the net-nutzi crowd similar to the unlamented Hal Turner. Why not a debate between lets say Rocky of the ANP, and Jeff Schoep of the NSM? Now THAT would be worth listening to! Why not set it up AA?

Anchorage Activist said...

Anonymous 5:11 PM -- If I had a podcast, I would try to set up such a debate. It would be logical.

Anonymous said...

5:11,
I think that's a great idea. However, it might be a pretty short debate. I could see Schoep getting frustrated, refusing to answer Rocky's questions and giving up early on. AA, you do such a great job with this blog, it would be cool if you did have a podcast.

Anonymous said...

Judging from how Rocky almost peed his pants and all put offered to shine a Jewish interviewer's shoes, it would be a comedy. Rocky does not do well with confrontation from anyone, hence the Internet being the only place the ANP exists. I'd love to hear Scheop or anybody debate Rocky. Better yet, get one of your more intellectual national socialist to talk to Rocky. Remember how stupid he looked a while back when an actual national socialist called him out? Without boiler plate union tripe and whinning about the NSM, Rocky has nothing to really to say. Bowles would be even better. It reminds me of when the Philistines wanted to drag Samson out to ridicule him, except Rocky and Taylor isn't about to push down any pillars. Praise Yahweh and put them on!

Anonymous said...

Rocky would never debate any REAL National Socialist. Rocky wil only shit talk on blogs from his mother's basement. Yes, it is true, Rocky lives and has always lived in his mother's house. I know this I was a ANP "supporter", Rocky is like a Mormon or Scientology Cult, he always hounds for your cash so he doesn't have to work. He is a fraud.

Anonymous said...

Rocky would just call Scheop names while Scheop would point out what everybody has already figured out about Rocky. A non-event.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, a debate between Rocky of the ANP vs Jeff Schoep representing the NSM would be sweet. Its too bad somebody out there doesn't set this up. Why don't you use your connections and see if you can get this going AA? Contact them both and see if they're up to it.

Anonymous said...

6:26 am, you are correct,. I sent Rocky hundreds of dollars over the course or six months. But when I missed one month he got real pissed, even though I had sent way above the minimum for that long. I really wanted to believe they were legit. Instead Rocky is a fraud, who wants to live off your donations. He made a dedicated comrade feel so bad for him when his computer broke, so he bought Rocky a new one. He once told us he couldn't make phone calls to party comrades, because the party couldn't pay his phone bill. He said if party comrades would "pledge" to pay him a salary, then he could "sit on his ass, and talk to people." This is the truth. I was a longtime supporter. Please don't get mixed up with the ANP.

Anonymous said...

LOL @ 6:26 am - Did you just call Jeff Schoep a "real" National Socialist!! LMAO! The guy is a confirmed race-mixer who has admitted to never even reading Mein Kampf because it was "too difficult." OMG I can't stop laughing!

Rocky Suhayda and the ANP are without a doubt the only representative of National Socialism in the States. Period.

Anonymous said...

I would be quite willing to debate Jeff Schoep, I think that it would be very revealing... For White Worker Power! Rocky J Suhayda, Chairman www.AmericanNaziParty.com 88!

Anonymous said...

I too sent Rocky over six million dollars, and all I ever got was a frigging t-shirt! And it was worn out and stained at that. Like you, I went and bought him a wide screen tv, a new car and a lifetime supply of skittles, and never even got a thank you. As for phone calls, I used to call him day and night, anytime I felt like it. I'd ask 'whats going on'? and he would have the nerve to tell me, 'comrade, your supposed to tell me whats going on, I'm not supposed to report to you'. Well, that made me as mad as hell, what was I supposed to tell my handler? Every other comrade blabs his mouth off, like it had diarrea, when I call them, whats Rockys problem. Just because he has a job, friends, family, a home and his own interests, doesn't he understand that he's supposed to be at my beck and call whenever I want, thats comes with his position as ANP Chairman. As for who I am, I'm not telling, Rocky is a mean old bastard and I'm afraid that he'll come after me and beat me black and blue like the last guy who pissed him off. You see I'm a manly-man, and I'm afraid that I would kill that old fart if he looked at me sideways. I'm known as the kike-crushing nigger-knocker, you know... Nasty old creep Rocky!

Anonymous said...

Seriously Rocky? You would "debate" Jeffy Schoep? About what? He doesn't have a clue about anything related to National Socialism or politics or NSDAP history... He would probably try and turn the conversation towards something like the NFL or how to operate a business selling skinhead stuff to gullible kids.

I think it would be pretty boring actually.

Anonymous said...

6:26, thanks for the insight into a typical ANP experience. I'm curious though, how did you get mixed up with them? No offense, but anybody just reading over this blog alone can probably smell a rat when it comes to the ANP. Rocky is all too willing to sell out to anybody who comes along regardless. Where to begin after that? My question is why you got hooked up with them in the first place?


Rocky, one way you display your lack of iltelect is in not knowing basic human psychology. EVERYBODY on the planet thinks they "tell it like it is" and "present the hard truth everyone hates". Try to find someone who says they like to sugar coat things and gloss over the truth. The fact is, you may not see it but people view the NSM (your sole reason for existance) as being a step behind the ANP in terms of quality. Personally, I can't stand the NSM and think it is just NS for skinheads and street toughs. But it is not bogged in scandals and traitorous behavior as the ANP is. You can try to say it all doesn't exist or shift the blame onto someone like Taylor Bowles but you are the little Hitler. The buck stops with you. If the ANP is the best "quality" there is, then it is time for America to give up on NS once and for all. Too much "cold hard truth" for ya? Oh allow me to congratulate myself! Kev in Alabama.

Anonymous said...

Rocky vs. Schoep in a debate. LMFAO, has anyone heard Rockys speeches? The man whines like a little girl and calls people names. Listen to his radio show even on that he cannot help but whine and cry about other white activists and call people names. Schoep is a talented orater whom has squared off with antis in the streets and jews like Geraldo and Alan Colmes on radio and tv. Rocky in his scarce interviews begs for non-white support and makes excuses for jews at the same time he rails against white nationalists in the NSM and other groups. This proposed debate sounds like sending a heavyweight boxer against a toddler. I doubt Schoep would even entertain giving the anp a second thought. Rocky & Schoep both live in the Detroit area a better idea would be to put them both in a boxing ring and then we can see if Rocky is just all internet talk like everyone says and thinks. I bet 88 bucks Schoep would go for that. The anp whines about nsm non-stop, but the nsm never utters a word publically about them. Interesting and clearly shows who is on top and who are the bottom feeders.

Anonymous said...

I listed to the ANP radio show and I think it is great. Ever hear Jeff Schoep speak (hmm, eh, huh, oh, er) Rocky speaks like a real National Socialist. Not like some punk bitch NSM Commander does.

Anonymous said...

What scandals 6:43? Name a single one the ANP has been involved in. The reason schoep wont respond is because he doesnt have a leg to stand on and he knows it. The man cant even keep it in his pants when it comes to muds or raise his offspring, how noble.

Anonymous said...

Since Rocky is about twice the age of Schoep, lets lessen the odds. Lets make Rocky wear contact lens, and a suit, as Jeff finds it very difficult to fight in them, and Jeff can have a cage where he can hide inside, with a couple of big nigger cops to guard the entrance when he gets tired. Also, Jeff gets an endless supply of folding chairs to throw at Rocky, so that he doesn't get too close. I bet Schoep would go for 88 bucks, as his father always told him - its such a deal!

Anonymous said...

6:43PM The NSM isn't bogged down in scandals and treasonous behavior? Do you ever read this website, just go back over this year alone as see how much crap about the NSM is on here. Or, are you infering that AA is sugar coating the truth? I think that the cold hard truth is, that you are a wimp who wishes that what Rocky says wasn't the truth and that you haven't the guts or the willingness to sacrifice to make National Socialism a reality. Now go congradulate yourself for being a coward who hides behind his words without backing them up with his name. Steve Davenport in Ohio

Anonymous said...

12:14 is right. Rocky would get stomped in a debate with Scheop. Scheop might not be such a good guy but Rocky is a laugh. All he does is repeat what the antis say and ask for money.

Anonymous said...

I've seen the YouTube video of Mr. Suhayda speaking at an ANP rally and he is a very clear, concise speaker. His TalkShoe radio shows are excellent as well. Jeffy is a babbling buffoon next to Rocky, who is obviously America's NS leader.

Anonymous said...

The ANP exposes the NSM for all the degeneracy within that organization. Do you have a problem with that for some reason? Or, perhaps your ok with it, because your on their level. Where has Jeff Schoep EVER faced off with anyone without cops around to protect his ass? Oh yeah, in NJ where they kicked his fat ass back inside wimpering and whining while his arab wife stood outside screaming obscenities about how she was a bad ass Detroiter! I still remember when he was chased down the street by antifa punks, where they took and burned his Swastika banner, and beat poor old Allen Vincent to the ground after Jeff and his boneheads left him to the tender mercy of the reds, after one of their non-police protected activities turned sour. After that, Schoep himself never has attended one non-cop protected event. Bob Brown ex-NSMer (and glad of it!)

Anonymous said...

When are either Mr. Griffin, or Mr. Linder going to quit talking, and start doing something about the problems facing the white race? In fact, except for spouting off hot air, what do they do besides shoot off their mouths. Ten thousands talkers don't equal one activist actually DOING something. Unlike the ANP they don't push literature distribution, nor like the NSM do they do demonstrations. so whats the big deal about either of them.

Anonymous said...

You got to understand that they're both entertainers, and as such are big wheels within this entertainment oriented movement. Thats pretty sad ain't it? Thats why people like Rocky are so hated by some of these rejects, he spoils all the fun by being so damn realistic. If he went around playing mini-fuhrer, dressed up like a little hitler and acting the norm for American nazis like a good jew stooge, this idiots would probably love him.

Anonymous said...

Griffin/Wallace and Linder are talkers, that's what they do. Griffin took Covington's "White Republic" idea (that HC has been blathering on about for years) and put it in the South to give he and his fellow "Confederates" something to talk about. I'm sorry, but this Aryan republic stuff just makes me laugh. All this "talk" of strategy, logistics, all the details, etc. Just a big current of hot air. This movement cant even get 50 people out in the street for a public event, and they think they're gonna "secede?" Im sure ZOG is sweating, gearing up for another "Civil War." LOL.

Linder provides a valuable service for his crowd. For many nowadays, forums are their "activism." VNN doesnt censor people like Stormfront, so it has that appeal.

Yeah, its nice to have a "community" type place to communicate with others. But, so much of the forums are just crap-talk; such valuable topics as "racist jokes" "what beer are you drinking right now" "who had better uniforms, the SA or the SS," and of course discussion of "female body parts."
A lot of people just love that kind of atmosphere, rack up 30 thousand posts and become some "senior member."
Let's also not forget that Linder brough traitor Glenn Miller on board.
You'd think with the following Linder has he might try to start an org. or political party, but he hasnt. Maybe he knows that about 90percent of the forum crowd prefers the "keyboard commando" route, so he doesnt bother.

Anonymous said...

Linder did attempt to get something going, with some newspaper project with the VNN crowd. They all got excited and talked and talked and talked about it, and then it flopped. It seems that all those people with their thousands of forum posts, when it came to the crunch fizzled out. Just about everybody over there, wanted everybody else to do it. Or, they didn't much like the idea of Traitor Glenn Miller being the one who was at the hub of the whole affair, collecting information. Pretty wise that. To this day, I can't imagine why Linder allows this movement traitor who testified against Butler, Miles and the Order Comrades at the Fort Smith sedition trials, to even be a part of his forum. If they would have been convicted, Miller would have played a part in sending them to prison, by assisting the Feds. This movement is pretty fucked up, when traitors are welcomed back.

Anonymous said...

5:27, that reminds me of Rocky accepting Taylor Bowles into the ANP.